Pages in this blog

Thursday, September 1, 2022

A critical period for acquiring rhythmic feel?

Steven Pinker recently posted a short video about a critical period for learning language. He reports a recent study he participated in that found that, yes, there apparently is a critical period for syntax and semantics, which ends at about 17 (c. 7:43). He went on to note, however, that their online survey could not test for pronunciation and accent. where “we have some reason to believe that the critical window might end earlier” (c. 9:12).

That got me to thinking and I put those thoughts into a note I sent to Pinker.

Hi Steve,

I just watched your little video on critical periods for language acquisition. The bit at the end, about the possibility that the critical period for acquiring accent may end earlier than that for syntax and semantics interests me.

I’ve got a bit of anecdotal evidence that musical rhythm may be subject to a similar critical period. I became interested in jazz at about the onset of puberty. Fortunately my trumpet teacher just happened to be a jazz musician and so he worked with me on jazz. In particular, he wrote out exercises in swing interpretation.

He told me that the hardest thing he ever had to do as a musician was when he was in the service working with musicians who were trained as ‘legit’ musicians – where ‘legit’ was an informal term of art and, for all I know, may still be in use. They simply could not get the hang of jazz rhythm. It wasn’t merely that jazz rhythms cannot be readily notated, but the musicians simply could not get the feel of the rhythm. In particular, swing eluded them.

That problem certainly wasn’t confined to the particular musicians he encountered in the service. It seemed to be a widely recognized problem. It showed up in high school concert band when we had pieces that were supposed to swing. It was difficult for the band to do.

I later found out, through practical experience, that proficiency in jazz did not automatically translate into proficiency in Latin rhythms. And a musician I played with in a rhythm and blues band maintained that RnB musicians could not play rock rhythms idiomatically. My sense is that jazz, rock, RnB, and Latin music are rhythmically closer to one another than any of them is to ‘legit’ music (that is, European concert and military music).

I have no idea whether or not this has been studied. If not, it would be worth looking into.

Best,

Bill B

* * * * *

On the general relationship between music and language, see this recent review, David Temperley, Music and Language, Annu. Rev. Linguist. 2022. 8:153–70, https://doi.org/10.1146/annurev-linguistics-031220-121126

Abstract: This review presents a highly selective survey of connections between music and language. I begin by considering some fundamental differences between music and language and some nonspecific similarities that may arise out of more general characteristics of human cognition and communication. I then discuss an important, specific interaction between music and language: the connection between linguistic stress and musical meter. Next, I consider several possible connections that have been widely studied but remain controversial: cross-cultural correlations between linguistic and musical rhythm, effects of musical training on linguistic abilities, and connections in cogni- tive processing between music and linguistic syntax. Finally, I discuss some parallels regarding the use of repetition in music and language, which until now has been a little-explored topic.

* * * * *

The first four minutes of the following video are about the difference between the time concepts of classica and jazz musicians:



3 comments:

  1. I had to learn to speak standard English aged 18- 19. Its one of the most difficult things I have ever done, I just could not do (100% perfection was required) it and could not understand why, took some time to work out why.

    Vowel sounds were the issue, I was replicating exactly what I was hearing but what I was hearing was clearly very different from what a native English speaker was hearing.

    Trail and error, could not use sound, learning how the tongue was shaped (very different) and where it hit the palette. That had to be taught and confirmed as I could not hear the difference myself.

    Nightmare, just profoundly frustrating, you just assume you can trust you're ear, not obvious what the issue was.

    Jazz I know through dance, I was not a natural here, but had to learn both tap and ballet at a professional standard, like learning the vowel sounds of standard English a nightmare for a year or so, just constantly going out of sync.

    Unlike pronunciation and accent, this just seemed to click into place one day after a year or so of intense daily lessons.

    Sudden sense of being able to balance move and start to think about interpretation. Probable took a long time but in the moment, the alteration between not doing and doing, seemed instant.

    Accent acquisition, never had that dramatic moment, always really difficult, intensely hard work and always required verification, not something I could work out for myself as I could not hear what I was doing here accurately enough for the accuracy that was required.

    Really dependant on another set of ears and just the grind of learning how to shape sound and the muscle movement in a very different way that is not entirely perceptible.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And no one knows why this happens.

      "I was replicating exactly what I was hearing but what I was hearing was clearly very different from what a native English speaker was hearing." – Very interesting.

      Delete
  2. Deeply vexing rather than interesting at the time, worst part was (still is) English actors do not require the same level of authenticity playing Scottish roles, they simply have to fool an English audience.

    More often than not sounds like a bad joke/ parody. Painful often impossible to stay focused without the desire to tear you're hair out.

    Smaller unfamiliar culture the majority of the audience is oblivious, its real and understandable.


    ReplyDelete