As you may have heard, the Chinese have unveiled a new AI, Manus, that, like DeepSeek before it, is the source of consternation among the Silicon Valley digerati. Tyler Cowen's been posting about it, Manus assorted links, a more recently, The political economy of Manus AI. That last post opens this way:
Early reports are pretty consistent, and they indicate that Manus agentic AI is for real, and ahead of its American counterparts. I also hear it is still glitchy Still, it is easy to imagine Chinese agentic AI “getting there” before the American product does. If so, what does that world look like?
The cruder way of putting the question is: “are we going to let Chinese agentic bots crawl all over American computers?”
The next step question is: “do we in fact have a plausible way to stop this from happening?”
The post is about the political implication of Manus, and its successors, both for China and the Chinese Communist Party, and for America. Thus, almost at the end:
But are the AI systems truly aligned in terms of having the same limited, selective set of information weights that the CCP does? I doubt it. If they did, probably they would not be the leading product. [...]
Does the CCP see this erosion of its authority and essence coming? If so, will they do anything to try to preempt it? Or maybe a few of them, in Straussian fashion, allow it or even accelerate it?
Let’s say China can indeed “beat” America at AI, but at the cost of giving up control over China, at least as that notion is currently understood. How does that change the world?
Solve for the equilibrium!
Who exactly should be most afraid of Manus and related advances to come?
Here's the comment I made in response:
I've not been following the Manus news, nor, for that matter, have I thought all that much about the CCP in this context. I note, however, the Chinese engineers are subject to the same constraints and potentials and occidental engineers. They don't inhabit a different physical universe.
It seems to me that in the past two or three years Silicon Valley has been engaged in a hype competition which is, at the same time, something of a mutually congratulatory circle-jerk, to be rather crude about it. With DeepSeek and now Manus, the Chinese seem to have revealed that to be a bit silly. That's a good thing, no?
Even if your primary analytic lens is that of great power competition, if the players on one side are trapped in cycles of self-congratulatory mimicry, they'll loose out to competitors who are more realistic. Are the Chinese in fact more realistic? I don't know.
But Dread Pirate Marcus is by no means the only critic of [the] supersize mafia. There's Yann LeCun, there's David "Watson" Ferrucci, who stays out of these debates, but has his hands full developing his own hybrid tech through his company, Elemental Cognition. There are others. And there's some interesting academic work as well. Consider this video, by an MIT graduate student, Pratyusha Sharma, Discovering & Engineering the Computation Underlying Large Intelligent Agents. She presents work on LLMs and on sperm whale communication. One of the things she's discovered about transformers is that, within (at least some) very large models, you can find a smaller model that's just as effective. Whoops! That suggests there's lots of room for actual deliberate engineering.
I suspect that's more stuff like that out there. The Chinese can access it as easily as we can. And it looks like India are just decided to ramp up its AI work. Are we headed for a three-way competition, USA, China, and India? Where's Putin's Russia? Can we afford to write Europe off?
AI & agents are applicable to knowledge and decisions. Knowledge and decisions in the end apply to politics and finance. I may "Solve for the equilibrium!" In a narrow sense - cure a disease, discover new materials, be freed from bureaucratic or operational drudgery with an agent. Yet even the trump coup, downsizing of governemt etc still needs cash flow! They will not collapse the market. Nor will the CCP. Both may exert total control of rhe polis with let a thousand flowers bloom, yet if you attaxk the head gardeners - Trump DOGe's, or CCP, your head will be kicked.
ReplyDeleteSo market and capital flows will / are as a corollary to "Even if your primary analytic lens is that of great power competition, if the players on one side are trapped in cycles of self-congratulatory mimicry,
[ policical ontological fiscal]
...they'll loose out to competitors who are more realistic." -or more become seperate flocks - deglobaliaation, monetary blocs, less trust and walled support, leading to a wicked three+n+1 body politic, fiscal and control functions.
Leading to...
"Are the Chinese [Us currently!] in fact more realistic? I don't know."
I dont know is the ceuxnif the matter with ai, agents and geopolitical tensions.
And the mad techbros / centibillionairrs / raliens (Larry Ellison, Andreessen, 2025) in the "west", qnd the dead hand of the CCP chopping off any tall poppies, make for trust and fiscal blocs in flux, to me, way more of a problem than the race to better smarter less hungry ai, way more concerning.
I agree that;
- "First, it develops the Big Tech-centric technology stream, highlighting the differing motivations and activities from the traditional innovation-centric technology stream.
- "Second, it underscores the universality of Big Tech exerting ubiquitous influence within and across streams, to primarily serve their self-interests rather than promote innovation. Our findings emphasize the need for a more critical exploration of policy role of Big Tech to ensure balanced and effective policy outcomes in the age of AI."
"Why and how is the power of Big Tech increasing in the policy process? The case of generative AI "
Shaleen Khanal, Hongzhou Zhang,Araz Taeihagh
Big tech control and influence are immense.
The way we measure immense?
When Elimon cuts access to starlink and russia cuts all the undersea cables and the only agent left are in china?...
'Dispensing with the US-centric financial system
by JOHN Q on FEBRUARY 23, 2025
...
"Are we headed for a three-way competition, USA, China, and India? Where's Putin's Russia? Can we afford to write Europe off?
"We need to recognise that the idea of a single global financial system, which has been dominant since the 1980s, is done for. It’s not a loss to be mourned, but that won’t make the task of replacing it any easier.
"I’m thinking about an alternative system, centred on the Eurozone, but incorporating other countries that don’t want to be dominated by either the US or China. That’s a mammoth problem
"I’ll put up two ideas to start with.
...
https://crookedtimber.org/2025/02/23/dispensing-with-the-us-centric-financial-system/
I think we need department of peace before all. I'd say if we had an apartment of peace since 1793 + sortition, all these musings would he moot.
DeleteMonday, December 14, 2015
"The Time Has Come for a Department of Peace
"Over at 3 Quarks Daily I’ve posted The United States Needs a Department of Peace. The idea was first proposed in 1793 by Dr. Benjamin Rush, one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence"
...
https://new-savanna.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-time-as-come-for-department-of-peace.html
May be relevant, ymmv.
ReplyDelete"Why Should Intelligence Be Related To Neuron Count?...
Mar 07, 2025
https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/why-should-intelligence-be-related
Game changing for certain ai applications, surely to change landscape at some point in some markets...
ReplyDelete"World's first "Synthetic Biological Intelligence" runs on living human cells"
By Bronwyn Thompson
March 03, 2025
https://newatlas.com/brain/cortical-bioengineered-intelligence/
Brain-on-a-chip: an emerging platform for studying the nanotechnology-biology interface for neurodegenerative disordersRaquel O. Rodrigues,Su-Ryon Shin &Manuel Bañobre-López
https://jnanobiotechnology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12951-024-02720-0
Nigh on impossible to get price. I want one. ?? AUD$40k ?
Buy a CL1...
https://corticallabs.com/cl1.html
"Whoops! That suggests there's lots of room for actual deliberate engineering.
ReplyDelete"I suspect that's more stuff like that out there."...
Show HN: Evolving Agents Framework
(github.com/matiasmolinas)105 points by matiasmolinas 10 hours ago | hide | past | favorite | 17 comments
Hey HN,
"I've been working on an open-source framework for creating AI agents that evolve, communicate, and collaborate to solve complex tasks. The Evolving Agents Framework allows agents to:
...
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43310963
"Blog post and code: Using Vectorize to build an unreasonably good search engine in 160 lines of code"
ReplyDeletehttps://blog.partykit.io/posts/using-vectorize-to-build-search