Starting in the 1960s and continuing well into the 1980s (and beyond) we see a renewed interest in stories and narrative across a variety of disciplines, literary criticism (including narratology), folklore, cognitive psychology and artificial intelligence. Vladimir Propp’s Morphology of the Folktale was revived by the structuralists, George Lakoff recast it in the terms of formal linguistics in an essay, “Structural Complexity in Fairy Tales” (The Study of Man, 1, 1972), and everyone was reading Lévi-Strauss on myth. One of the questions that came out of this research is simple: What’s the difference between a mere narrative and a story? By the time I stopped following that research in the mid-1980 the question was still open.
According to an informal review by Mark Riedl that’s where things stood as of August 2021, “An Introduction to AI Story Generation” (The Gradient). He defines three key concepts:
- Narrative: The recounting of a sequence of events that have a continuant subject and constitute a whole (Prince, 1987). An event describes some change in the state of the world. A “continuant subject” means there is some relationship between the events—it is about something and not a random list of unrelated events. What “relates” events is not entirely clear but I’ll get to that later.
Story: A narrative that tells a story has certain properties that one comes to expect. All stories are narratives, but not all narratives are stories. Unfortunately I cannot point to a specific set of criteria that makes people regard a narrative as a story. One strong contender, however, is a structuring of events in order to have a particular effect on an audience. Plot: A plot is the outline of main incidents in a narrative.
Let’s consider a very simple kind of narrative: someone leaves home, travels to the grocery story, purchases some items, and returns home. An actual narrative would mention a specific individual, specific places, events along the way, items purchase, and so forth. By Prince’s definition that’s a narrative because there has been a change of state in the world, several in fact depending on how you count them. Items have been taken from the store and transported home (involving two state changes per item) and money has been transferred from our “protagonist” to the owner of the store (two state changes).
I doubt, however, that anyone would consider such a narrative to be a story. Now consider a Japanese reality show that has been shown on Netflix, Old Enough! Young children, three to six years old, are given simple errands to perform. Going to the store, purchasing something, and returning with it is a typical errand. I have watched a number of these and would consider them stories. Why? Because the errands are challenging for the children. They’ve never done it before, there is no line of sight between home and the story, they have to remember the items, remember to ask for change, and so forth. It’s a challenge for them. We see them confronting and overcoming obstacles, including simply fear. That makes it a story proper.
Note, however, that I watched a video of the journey, one edited to amplify the challenges the children face. That is to say, the events were edited “in order to have a particular effect on an audience.” It would be easy to write these stories in such simple and reduced form that the “storyness” is completely eliminated, leaving only the bare narrative husk. But someone with only modest story-telling skills could also write these stories in a from that includes accounts of the challenges faced by the children, thus making a story out of a bare narrative.
Now consider a six-word statement that’s been mistakenly attributed to Ernest Hemingway: “For sale: baby shoes, never worn.” However, versions of that statement have appeared as early as 1883. Those six words don’t even give us an event, and yet we seem willing to treat them as telling a story. Why? Because those words lead us to infer something like: the baby shoes were purchased in anticipation of the birth of a child; the child was either still born or died soon after birth; the shoes are no longer needed. Question: At what age is a person sophisticated enough to make such an inference from those words? I doubt that a six-year old would do it.
What, then, is the difference between a narrative and a story? It depends, doesn’t it? How are the events narrated and what can we expect the audience to infer from what is said? It’s not an easy question to answer.
Bill, you said above: "But someone with only modest story-telling skills could also write these stories in a from that includes accounts of the challenges faced by the children, thus making a story out of a bare narrative."
ReplyDeleteI doubt someone with only modest musical abilities would he able to write minimalist music like Glass or Eno, nor the minimalist story/ sentences like " “For sale: baby shoes, never worn.”. Minimalist story?
Will LLM's be able to write, play & appreciate music Bill? Like....
"There wasn't even a narrative, but I was just crying because it was so beautiful."
~ Pianist and composer Sally Whitwell,
Music, minimalism & story & narrative.
Bill, what would Claude make of minimalist music? I'd doubt an LLM will be feeling the emotions pianist and composer Sally Whitwell felt above.
Bill, you done visual minimalism as a way of interrogating Claude...
[1.]
Monday, January 20, 2025
"Claude 3.5 Sonata describes two different photos and approaches the concept of a minimal photo."
https://new-savanna.blogspot.com/2025/01/claude-35-sonata-describes-two.html?m=1
Is an LLM even going to be able to pay attention to the sparse or glacial changes in minimalist music? Is there a story or narrative in music? With or without lyrics? What learning would an LLM weight after training or minimalist music?
Article...
"Infinite Loops: A journey through the music of minimalism"
...
"Ed Le Brocq traces the history of minimalism in this four-part series marking the 90th birthday of Steve Reich. Discover where it came from and where it's going, starting with the Theatre of Eternal Music, Terry Riley and La Monte Young.
Their ideas would go on to reshape the musical landscape far beyond their experimental circles.
The movement's fingerprints can be heard everywhere: in Brian Eno's ambient albums, Kraftwerk's electronic grooves, Radiohead's atmospheric soundscapes, and the film scores of Max Richter and Hans Zimmer.
"To mark Steve Reich's 90th birthday on October 3, ABC Classic explores what minimalist music is, why it became one of the most influential musical movements of the past century, and where you might already be hearing it in everyday life.
...
But don't mistake simplicity for ease.
Whitwell says performing minimalist music is technically demanding.
"You have to always be extremely aware of where you are as a performer," she says.
What's special about minimalist music?
While some minimalist music can seem deceptively simple, Le Brocq says the point is to allow listeners to "hear more and more things just from a simple sound."
Whitwell remembers attending Philip Glass's four-hour opera Einstein on the Beach, which became her favourite opera.
"It's like sitting inside some kind of giant magical '70s analogue synthesiser," she says.
"There wasn't even a narrative, but I was just crying because it was so beautiful."
"Whitwell says the opera's power comes from the way each elements come together.
"Every element, the music, the dance, the acting, the spoken word, the design, all of it together forms a complete work. None of those elements is really more important than any other."
...
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-10-04/what-is-minimalism-in-music/107210720
I appreciate your thoughts, and hope serendipitous inspiration emerges, via a 'chat' with Claude about minimalist music, story & narrative.
If a writer provides minimal descriptions, my mind imagines the detail. Minimal Music? My mind emotes / acts primitively, yet does not attempt to provide any mote musical detail.
You?
SD