Jaron Lanier talks sense about AI with Neil deGrasse Tyson [Homo Ludens]

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There Is No AI Really (It’s Just People), with Jaron Lanier

Is the internet too far gone or can we still fix it? Neil deGrasse Tyson, and co-hosts Negin Farsad and Gary O’Reilly, sit down with Jaron Lanier, computer scientist, and father of virtual reality, to diagnose what went wrong with the web, how it’s changed with AI, and ideas for a new path back.

Learn about Jaron’s initial dream behind virtual reality and why it's been a commercial disappointment. Why does VR make some people sick? We break down why VR didn’t take off like he had hoped. Are lawsuits the way of beating social media addiction?

We discuss social media and the mathematical force at the heart of the internet's dysfunction: the network effect. Lanier explains how low-friction digital networks inevitably centralize power, concentrate wealth, and reward the loudest voices. What does a media-addicted personality look like? Is everyone vulnerable? We discuss the dominant business model in Silicon Valley, how it taps into the fight or flight response, and how it contributes to the internet we have today.

Can the internet be saved? We explore alternative business models and address the tech oligarchs who appeared on the U.S. presidential inauguration stage, and that the current wave of public discontent may be the beginning of a real correction. How does AI contribute to the problems of today’s internet? We talk about the problems with mythologizing AI and take it out of its black box. We explore his concept of "data dignity" — the idea that data originates with people, and should be compensated as such. Plus we address the difficulty with privacy and that maybe outlawing predicting human behavior.

Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction: Jaron Lanier
06:17 - The Thinking Behind Virtual Reality
08:33 - Why VR Flopped
16:57 - Social Media Addiction Lawsuits
21:42 - The Social Media Addicted Personality
22:42 - The Internet’s Business Model
30:28 - Is Social Media Equally Bad for Everyone?
36:22 - AI’s Changes to the Internet
38:39 - Stop Mythologizing AI
43:30 - There Is No AI
52:24 - Data Dignity & Inventing a New Jobs Under AI
58:19 - Why Privacy is Difficult
01:06:20 - Is the Internet Toast?
01:08:28 - Everyone’s Suing AI
01:10:54 - Closing Thoughts